| oh come now | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 07:42 pm EST 11/30/24 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 07:34 pm EST 11/30/24 | |
| In reply to: Antipathy to Stephen Schwartz? - peter3053 06:39 pm EST 11/30/24 | |
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| The Tonys, first of all, have different voters... it hasn't been the same group since the 70s, when he first started losing Tonys. Secondly, they do not get together and decide to give or not give an award to someone based on what they think of their past work. It's really just timing. Have you looked at when his shows were eligible and what they lost to? I think Pippin, Godspell, Rags, and Wicked are all Tony-worthy scores. But not one of them would have gotten my vote over the scores that won (with the possible but unlikely exception of Rags over Les Miz... but I love Les Miz, so, no, not even then). 1973: Pippin, a wonderful score I love, rightfully lost to A Little Night Music. In most years Pippin probably would have would have taken Best Musical, but luckily the Tonys saw fit to give it to ALNM. 1977: Godspell, a wonderful score I love, rightfully lost to Annie, which also won Best Musical surprising no one. 1978: Working (which is was one of many contributing writers nominated), a wonderful score I enjoy, rightfully lost to On the Twentieth Century 1987: Rags, a mostly brilliant score to a huge flop show for which Schwartz wrote the lyrics (which are good, but the music is the real star here), rightfully lost to Les Miserables, which also of course took Musical. 2004: Wicked, a wonderful score in a show that *came to be* enormously popular (meaning when it was nominated no one knew it would still be running 20 years later), with a score that is sometimes great and often C-B level, rightfully lost to Avenue Q. But it should have lost to Caroline or Change. Hell, for my money Taboo has a better score overall than Wicked, and was also nominated. It was a very very strong year for original scores, and Wicked didn't deserve the win. I think most people assumed it would take Best Musical but not score or book... but Avenue ran an incredible campaign. Caroline Or Change actually deserved both Score and Book if you ask me. The Baker's Wife never made it to broadway, and if it did now it would be a revival. Hunchback (for which Schwartz wrote the lyrics, which are good, but the music is the real star here) hasn't been on Broadway to be nominated, neither has Children of Eden (music and lyrics)... and both, by now, would almost definitely be considered revivals and ineligible for the Best Score award. The Prince of Egypt might make it to Broadway in the next 5 years, who knows. I doubt VERY much it would win Best Score. And he still has Queen of Versailles upcoming which will almost definitely be nominated, and depending on the timing and competition could even win him his first competitive Best Score Tony Award! Schwartz also does not orchestrate is own score... Jason Robert Brown, Adam Guettel, Tom Kitt, and Duncan Sheik all have more Tonys than they might because they orchestrate too. (I would have thought this would have given Dave Malloy a richly deserved Tony, since he orchestrated the brilliant score of Great Comet, so if he lost Best Score, as he sadly did, he could at least win for Orchestrations, but DEH inexplicably took Orchestrations too) I'd say having written some of the most popular, beloved, oft-produced, and profitable musicals from the 70s to the 2000s is more than enough reward and recognition. I mean seriously, I'm not sure there are two post-Golden age musicals that have been produced more in schools and community and regional theaters than Pippin and Godspell. And Wicked, when it's available, will surely join them. Andrew Lloyd Webber has done the same, moreso, and I think he only has as many Best Scores wins as he does because of circumstance... so let's compare to ALW's Tony stats: -JCS rightfully lost to Follies, even though it is one of his best and most impactful scores (lost Musical) -Evita won in 1980, against Barnum, Sugar Babies and Hollywood/Ukraine. Not the strongest competition. Also won Musical. -Jospeh rightfully lost to Nine, and presumably would have also lost to Dreamgirls or Merrily had it gone differently. (lost Musical) -Cats won in 1983, but again to the very weak competition of Merlin, A Doll's Life, and the stage version of 7 Brides for 7 Brothers (Cats also won Musical) -Song and Dance rightfully lost to Drood (lost Musical) -Starlight Express rightfully lost to Les Miz (lost Musical) -Phantom rightfully lost to Into the Woods (to be fair, if Webber had not won twice already, it's believable they'd have given this to Phantom, but ITW deserved it either way, and Best Musical too, so Webber walked away with the big prize anyway) -Aspects of Love rightfully lost to City of Angels (and surely would have ranked behind Grand Hotel that year) (lost Musical) -Sunset Boulevard won but it was *the only score nominated*, the Aaron Tveit of Best Score winners. It also won Best Musical by near default, up against only 1 show, the musical revue Smokey Joe's Cafe. Had Sunset opened the season prior it might have lost to Passion, or evened the bitter playing field and knocked Passion and itself out giving room for love for Beauty & The Beast (which by today's rules I don't think would be eligible), and had it opened a season later it would have handily lost to Rent. -The Woman in White rightfully lost to Drowsy Chaperone, and surely came behind in votes to The Color Purple and even The Wedding Singer (lost Musical) -School of Rock rightfully lost to Hamilton, and surely was out voted by Waitress and Bright Star even (lost Musical) So ALW has 11 nominations and only 3 wins... and 1 of those wins it was by default. However he balances that with 4 wins for Best Musical, including for Phantom which he lost for Score. Schwartz has 4 nominations and zero wins (I am not counting Working for this), and zero Best Musical wins. I have no doubt he will, as you said, get a Lifetime Achievement Tony... and probably pretty soon. Considering his first nomination was 51 years ago, and despite how youthful he looks and acts he is turning 77 before the next Tonys... with the success of the Wicked movie, I think there's a VERY good chance they'll give it to him this next Tonys or the one after when Wicked Part 2 has come out. |
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