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| re: There are *5* best Musical nominee slots, right? (and Variety's picks) | |
| Posted by: dramedy 02:48 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
| In reply to: There are *5* best Musical nominee slots, right? (and Variety's picks) - Showtunegal 02:37 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
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| There are 5 nominees if there are 9 or more in the category. There are more than 9 new musicals this year. Rules (j)(ii) |
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| Link | https://www.tonyawards.com/documents/18/2023-2024_Tony_Rules_and_Regulations.pdf |
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| I read the rules, and ADFeldman is right | |
| Posted by: Showtunegal 05:22 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
| In reply to: re: There are *5* best Musical nominee slots, right? (and Variety's picks) - dramedy 02:48 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
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| we could have a tie which could make as many as 7 if there was a 3-way tie for 5th place. I really appreciated getting to look at those rules! | |
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| The Times is reporting 5-7 nominees for best musical | |
| Posted by: Showtunegal 05:11 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
| In reply to: re: There are *5* best Musical nominee slots, right? (and Variety's picks) - dramedy 02:48 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
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| See link. But thank you, I am reading those rules and regulations now! | |
| Link | https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/29/theater/tony-awards-nominations.html?unlocked_article_code=1.oE0.riM6.J2Nt_1E5j1Y9&smid=url-share |
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| 9 or more is one thing -- they don't have a rule for 15 or more? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 05:09 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
| In reply to: re: There are *5* best Musical nominee slots, right? (and Variety's picks) - dramedy 02:48 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
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| 15 eligible nominee candidates seems like enough to justify a 6th sloth. Especially with the precedent the Oscars has set for a long time now. And the Oscars is way less needy for the show to be a commercial for those movies than the Tonys are desperately needy for the show to be a commercial for the musicals on Broadway AND broadway in general, as a season and as an idea for cultural interest and tourist money. It seems only in the Tony Awards, CBS, the careers of the artists making the shows, the careers of the artists performing in them, and Broadways best interest to have 6 nominees this year. Hey, maybe even 7. Let's not pretend the Tonys is based entirely on merit, but even if it were, in a season of 15 new musicals, having 7, which is not even half the eligible shows, compete for Best Musical seems pretty fair... even if most of them aren't very good. |
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| Is there another major award that has MORE favorable odds than the Tonys? | |
| Last Edit: WaymanWong 07:25 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 07:21 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
| In reply to: 9 or more is one thing -- they don't have a rule for 15 or more? - Chazwaza 05:09 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
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| Last year, 301 feature films were deemed eligible for Oscar nominations, largely fighting for 1 of 10 slots for Best Picture. Dozens and dozens of TV shows, on various networks and streaming platforms, battle for the roughly 8 Emmy slots for Best Comedy or Best Drama. But on Broadway, 15 shows vie for Tony's 5 Best Musical slots (6 if there's a tie), and 10 shows vie for the 5 slots for Best Play. With only 8 candidates eligible for Leading Actress in a Play, 4 of them will be nominated. That's 50% of the field. There are categories where the odds are even better than 50%: For Leading Actor in a Play, 5 out of 9 contenders will be named. For Play Revival, 3 out of 5 shows will be Tony nominees. For Musical Revival, 4 out of 6 shows will be Tony nominees. In 2022, there were 6 Best Musical nominees: ''A Strange Loop,'' ''Girl From the North Country,'' ''MJ,'' ''Mr. Saturday Night,'' ''Paradise Square'' and ''Six.'' Who seriously believes all SIX of them were worthy of Best Musical? Granted, taste is subjective, but the Tony shouldn't be a participation trophy. |
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| re: Is there another major award that has MORE favorable odds than the Tonys? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 08:30 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
| In reply to: Is there another major award that has MORE favorable odds than the Tonys? - WaymanWong 07:21 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
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| Of course, my point was not about odds. Wait, are you saying that in the entire broadway season there are only 9 lead actors in a play? Only 9 plays, new or revival, in the entire season, had a male role that qualifies as a lead? If there were 6 Best Musical slots in 2022 why would there only be 5 now when there were more eligible musicals? I don't think the Tonys are about only nominating what *DESERVES* it... it's about presenting a platter of the best of shows that were good enough to not be considered bad. But it's also so subjective. I would eliminate MJ, others would eliminate Girl From North Country. I know people who genuinely don't think Strange Loop is very good, and that won. I know people who were blown away by MJ and some who thought it was "meh" at best. Everyone seemed to think Paradise Square was a mess, but without it being nominated we wouldn't have gotten that Tony performance (one I don't think was particularly good, but everyone else seemed to fall over for). And I think Six is clever and fun, I'm not sure I would have ranked it "best musical"... In theory only things that deserve to win should be nominated for anything, and then it's a battle of many other elements among 3-5 deserving contenders on who actually wins. I've lost that feeling with the Tonys, which feels more to me to be about shinning a spotlight, advancing careers of theater artists and future lives for shows, and selling what Broadway has to offer as a season and as an institution of entertainment and art. |
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| re: Is there another major award that has MORE favorable odds than the Tonys? | |
| Last Edit: WaymanWong 09:08 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 09:01 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
| In reply to: re: Is there another major award that has MORE favorable odds than the Tonys? - Chazwaza 08:30 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
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| ''Wait, are you saying that in the entire broadway season there are only 9 lead actors in a play? Only 9 plays, new or revival, in the entire season, had a male role that qualifies as a lead?'' These are the 9 contenders that the Tonys ruled eligible for Leading Actor in a Play: * Leslie Odom, ''Purlie Victorious'' * Michael Stuhlbarg, ''Patriots'' * Jeremy Strong, ''An Enemy of the People'' * Liev Schreiber, ''Doubt'' * Steve Carrell, ''Uncle Vanya'' * William Jackson Harper, ''Uncle Vanya'' * Danny DeVito, ''I Need That'' * Paul Sparks, ''Grey House'' * Eric McCormack, ''The Cottage'' If the Tonys had not bumped up Harper to Leading, there would be only 8 contenders, which means there would've been only 4 slots. With Harper, it's 5. And here's who the Tonys ruled eligible for Leading Actress in a Play: * Sarah Paulson, ''Appropriate'' * Jessica Lange, ''Mother Play'' * Rachel McAdams, ''Mary Jane'' * Amy Ryan, ''Doubt'' * Betsy Aidem, ''Prayer for the French Republic'' * Laurie Metcalf, ''Grey House'' * Tatiana Maslany, ''Grey House'' * Laura Bell Bundy, ''The Cottage'' If the Tonys had bumped up Anika Noni Ross (''Uncle Vanya''), this category would've had 5 Best Actress slots. But they didn't, so there are only 4. |
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| re: Is there another major award that has MORE favorable odds than the Tonys? | |
| Last Edit: writerkev 08:38 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
| Posted by: writerkev 08:35 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
| In reply to: re: Is there another major award that has MORE favorable odds than the Tonys? - Chazwaza 08:30 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
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| “It’s about presenting a platter of the best of shows that were considered good enough to not be considered bad”? You really believe that? I can’t imagine any sentence more off-the-wall bizarre. It’s as if you’re actively promoting mediocrity. I think the notion of expanding to six nominees in scenarios where there are 15 contenders, or whatever you’re proposing, is laughable. A total joke. There are too many just-passable nominees as it is. I think it was far better when the nominees were kept to four in each category—largely for the reasons Wayman mentions. |
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| It only prolongs the inevitable | |
| Posted by: dramedy 05:38 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
| In reply to: 9 or more is one thing -- they don't have a rule for 15 or more? - Chazwaza 05:09 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
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| To give Tony nominations to weak shows. Even winning the tony for best musical doesn’t guarantee financial success—a strange loop and Kimberly akimbo. There’s a good chance this years winner won’t be a box office success although a show like Hell’s Kitchen or back to the future might be enough of nudge to make it a winner. Remember when leap of faith was nominated and promptly posted a closely notice. But if investors want to pump more money into broadway economy it at least pays the bills of the working class on broadway for another month or two. | |
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| re: It only prolongs the inevitable | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 07:09 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 07:05 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
| In reply to: It only prolongs the inevitable - dramedy 05:38 pm EDT 04/29/24 | |
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| I don't agree that it only prolongs the inevitable. It also provides a huge spotlight on something looking to find an audience, no matter how brilliant or messy, flawed or mediocre it is. I'm not saying nominate a bad show for the sake of it. But we aren't talking about worthless trash shows here. It's also shining a light and giving a pretty notable boost to the exposure and careers of the writers, directors, choreographers, and actors doing the show(s), and brings more variety to the Tonys proceedings. I never said it would guarantee anything, except the minimum that comes from being nominated. It doesn't seem like much but it really goes a long way for the people who will benefit from it, and the future of the show itself. I don't think nominating a 6th show out of 15 guarantees nominating something bad. I also don't think whatever the 6th show is is going to be less good or any more bad than any of the 5 shows that do get it. Are you trying to tell me that The Notebook or The Outsiders is so much better, so undeniably a better musical, than Here Lies Love, or Wine & Roses, or Lempicka, or even Back to the Future (I haven't seen it yet, but some people do like it)? Absolutely not one of the new musicals with an original score this season has been raved about and/or received with across the board praise. If Broadway used Rotten Tomatoes, it feels like nothing with an original score would have rated more than 68% fresh. It's not like this season's 5 nominees will be Sweeney Todd, Hamilton, Cabaret, Hello Dolly, Fiddler... and I'm pushing for a 6th slot to nominate Starmites. In a sea of messy or mediocre new musicals, why not shine a light on 4 of the new shows that are 55-65% fresh, rather than just 3 (because we all know 2 of the 5 noms will be Illinois and Hell's Kitchen which don't have original scores). And especially if having 6 means that shows still running can be nominated and so can a show like Here Lies Love that was a raved about hit off broadway, lots something in the new production and cast, but is still a dynamic worthwhile musical with an all Asian cast... and/or that a messy show with lots of love and show-off and applaud, like Lempicka, can have a spotlight for more people to see for themselves. And it's not just to sell tickets to a current run. Being able to market a show as "Best Musical nominee" helps with regional productions, it helps with future life, it helps sell the show when people see a performance on the Tonys, it helps producers produce more new musicals with original scores. |
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