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Threaded Order Chronological Order
| re: Philly High School drops MILLIE after complaints of racism | |
| Posted by: | vegas 05:30 pm EST 12/26/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Philly High School drops MILLIE after complaints of racism - simbo 05:16 pm EST 12/26/15 |
| I have only vague recollections of the movie, and haven't seen the stage version, but even if the "asian characters" are cut how can the show have "no roles for asians at all"? Do all of the other roles require non-Asian actors? Such a script would be a rarity. I've even seen My Fair Lady with Asians in leading roles. | |
| reply to this message | |
| re: Philly High School drops MILLIE after complaints of racism | |
| Posted by: | simbo 05:39 pm EST 12/26/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Philly High School drops MILLIE after complaints of racism - vegas 05:30 pm EST 12/26/15 |
| Music Man is set in a conservative Iowa town in 1912. While, yes, you can cast asians as the various characters, the fact remains that in that time and that place, it's kinda improbable that an asian character would have been socially intergrated a whole heap. So yes, you can do it but it tends to mean you're pretending the past was a wildly lovely place in ways it really wasn't. | |
| reply to this message | |
| re: Philly High School drops MILLIE after complaints of racism | |
| Posted by: | Chromolume 11:19 pm EST 12/27/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Philly High School drops MILLIE after complaints of racism - simbo 05:39 pm EST 12/26/15 |
| Music Man is set in a conservative Iowa town in 1912. While, yes, you can cast asians as the various characters, the fact remains that in that time and that place, it's kinda improbable that an asian character would have been socially integrated a whole heap. So yes, you can do it but it tends to mean you're pretending the past was a wildly lovely place in ways it really wasn't. So, even if we put aside the general idea of color-blind casting for a moment... ...we're talking about a cast made up of teens. But isn't it improbable that teens would have been the sole population of a town like River City, whether in 1912 or now? Would it make any sense that the Mayor would be a teen, and would have a teenage daughter? Would the school board be run by teens? Would Mrs. Paroo be that young? Marian might not be that much older than in her teens, but we have to assume Harold Hill has bene out of school for a while lol. How about Winthrop? I assume many high schools would cast a girl in the role, because most high school boys' voices would have changed already. But would such crossdressing/cross-genderism even be allowed in 1912 Iowa? My point being, why do you see race as a special case in casting in this situation? If the cast is already going to be generally the wrong age range (in terms of look as well as actual age), why should the race of any actor be treated as a different issue? If you can accept a 17-year old boy as Harold Hill, does it really matter what race he is? yes, it's a high school production. But why decide we can accept a young cast playing adults but NOT overlook racial differences as well? That makes no sense to me whatsoever. | |
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| re: Philly High School drops MILLIE after complaints of racism | |
| Posted by: | BruceinIthaca 12:12 am EST 12/28/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Philly High School drops MILLIE after complaints of racism - Chromolume 11:19 pm EST 12/27/15 |
| Thank you so much for putting it in these terms. On this board (and elsewhere) people seem to get particularly tetchy or defensive about asking for either color-blind casting or consideration of how few roles written for non-white performers there exist in the canon of works done for shows done in educational settings. Some show just don't make sense for teens to do--we did a student-directed production of Uncle Vanya when I was a senior (I played the Professor) which I'm sure would have been risible to anyone not part of our peer group or relatives, but, you know what--we learned a lot about Chekov's play by doing it. We also did Never Too Late (I played the lead, Harry) and its menopausal smirky comedy (it was also student directed) taught us very little about what theatre can do. Still, I'm sure we got something out of learning comic timing and physical comedy. People who attend school, college, or even community theatre should acknowledge that they are part of a process whose aims are somewhat different from those of professional theatre. I'm not advocating for "Oh! Calcutta Junior" versions to be done in middle schools, but I think this thread points to the ongoing discomfort we as a nation have around race as a visible issue, which theatre inevitably does. I'd ask us to bring our better angels to the projects educators and their students are trying to do. I also think it is worth considering that non-white students are called on (expected to) "act" in white ways (verbally, culturally) in all kind of ways, visible and invisible and, hence, may not find the code-switching we all seem to worry about when a Native American teen plays Nellie Forbush so difficult as when a white student attempts to "switch codes" into the vernacular urban Black English of Leroy in "Fame" (I know a very Nordic young man cast as Leroy in a Nebraksa high school production of that show--I just can't imagine how cringe-inspiring that could have been and wonder what the young actor got out of the experience) | |
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| re: Philly High School drops MILLIE after complaints of racism | |
| Posted by: | LynnB 01:24 pm EST 12/27/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Philly High School drops MILLIE after complaints of racism - simbo 05:39 pm EST 12/26/15 |
| And with an all-Caucasian cast, The Music Man is a realistic portrayal of an Iowa town in 1912??? Maybe there are shows that lend themselves to that kind of argument against multi-ethnic casting. But I don't think The Music Man is among them. | |
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| re: Philly High School drops MILLIE after complaints of racism | |
| Posted by: | BruceinIthaca 05:46 pm EST 12/26/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Philly High School drops MILLIE after complaints of racism - simbo 05:39 pm EST 12/26/15 |
| Or, as I say above, you suspend disbelief, and assume that the characters are white Midwesterners even if the actors playing them are not. Wasn't Barbara Cook from Tennessee, after all? And switching to film), Hermione Gingold sounded like no Iowan I ever met--even with all the Delsarte and elocution lessons in the world! I think part of the pleasure can be the utopian opportunities (I'm stealing from Jill Dolan and Jose Munoz) such theatrical experiences offer! | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| Jill Dolan could weigh in here with gravitas. | |
| Posted by: | Delvino 09:55 am EST 12/27/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Philly High School drops MILLIE after complaints of racism - BruceinIthaca 05:46 pm EST 12/26/15 |
| (Ah, and wouldn't Jill Dolan have a lot to say about the way an audience unpacks Marian's plight as a spinster in River City! That aspect of "Music Man" is quite the wildcard in 2015, our perception of this woman's influence vis a vis inherited property and entitlement in a staunch patriarchy. Of course, isn't it interesting that she's unleashed, sexually speaking, by a man who's a capitalist criminal? And then, to get back to the topic; Dolan might find a white slave trader Mrs. Mears, a very compelling figure, tied to few options for women in "Millie's" universe.) | |
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| re: Philly High School drops MILLIE after complaints of racism | |
| Posted by: | TheOtherOne 11:21 pm EST 12/26/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Philly High School drops MILLIE after complaints of racism - BruceinIthaca 05:46 pm EST 12/26/15 |
| "Wasn't Barbara Cook from Tennessee, after all?" You are right about her not being a midwesterner, but she is from Georgia. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: Philly High School drops MILLIE after complaints of racism | |
| Posted by: | LegitOnce 08:04 pm EST 12/26/15 |
| In reply to: | re: Philly High School drops MILLIE after complaints of racism - BruceinIthaca 05:46 pm EST 12/26/15 |
| Well said! It's not as if Music Man is conceived as a naturalistic work, after all, and even if it were so conceived (as say, A Doll's House is) there is certainly precedent for presenting such a piece in a non-naturalistic manner. The Asians in Millie I find troublesome; this is an issue that could have been addressed in the adaptation to the stage, but that opportunity was at least in part missed. | |
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